5008354 Sonderkommando Auschwitz

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Shatll Chaxan: Li fe D idn 't Ma tter Arryntol,c,

Death W as

oo

Close

511:1111

: I I ; I / : I I I

I I ; I S

;I

S I ~ O I I ~

>L . C S C I I C C

a n d P I - o i e c ~ sl l imp ress ive pe rsol l -

I I I I ~

I i \

1;11'j:c*c'yc*s

I I ; I ~ I < I C

w ith vi tal ity . He is an offspr in g of the prou l J e w i s h

L ~ ~ ~

1

S;~ loi l ik i l t id a loyal , d yed - in- the-w ool Zio nis t . H e d ic l 11ot

; ~ l l o wI I I ~O I I Y i nte rv ie w s wit11 h i m t o p a s s w i t i i o ~ ~ t. c l t e r a t i l ~ gis c o ~ ~ v i c t i

I I I ; I I

t 1 1 *

I l o l o c a u s t c o u l d n o t h a v e h a p p e n e d h a d t h e I e w s hncl a s ra re ro

~ ~ ~ - o t c . c t~ ~ ' I I I .l v i t l i o ~ ~ ts t a t ? , \vc a r e e as y p re y f o r e x r e r r n i ~ ~ a r i o n . " e a l-



location: "I- lere wa s thc

r o o m

~ ~ l h c r ehe peop le und ressed , he re was t l i e doo r

t o t he g as c l i a ~ u l ~ c ~ ;lc rc was the %asclianlher itself,

a n d

here 1 removed the

l .oclies i~ .ori l l ic gas cIiam1~)rr ." t ~ir l ied a le fro m sl ~o ck .t ~ v a s s t h o u g l ~lr

Iiacl left this place

c ~ ~ ~ l y

c s t c ~ . d a ~ .

l ' l ie rnosr nioving part c?f t l ie v is it for me. ho\vever n experience that

11rt111ght m e t o re ar s w a r r e m a r k t ha t S li au l m a d e a f te r o n e of i b e r e c o r d i ~ ~ ~

s e ss i oi ~ s. G i d c o ~ ~ , "le saicl as wc walked slowly from the ruills of C:rernnto-

1.111111 ( I l l

to the ya rd

uf

t he c r e ~ l ~ a ~ o r i u n i ,he ~n ic r -op l ic~ i ietill o n, "soltle-

thicig tllar has Iwen 1:ottled u p illside llle for lno re tllall for ty years bas just beel

p~u 'ge t i .

i

his clay, I haven ' t to ld ariyolle i l l m y family a th ing about nly l ife

dllr ing t l ie I- ln locaust .

1

just col~l (lri.( ell tllc111ahou t lny wor k in Bi rkenau .

N o w

I

(ee l r e leased . T hc s l~ ack l c s

l l ; i t

I o l ~ l ~ t lly heart have been untied.

' l ~ l i n r ~ kou for d o i n g th i s f o ~ .11r."

wa s clc lig l~ted o I lcar I l lis . b l y t .orlscic .nce troubles rne when

1

lead EIolo-

caust survivors I~;lc l<nto t l lri l- IJ ;I . ;I , 11rir. >it ter n ie~ nori cs , heir n ightmares,

eve ry th ing tha t they 11;lvc I)ccrl lryill : to I .cpress a nd ga g in old er t o ma ke theil-

lives i n t he ~ ) r c s c ~ ~ lo l r i - ;~ I l l r . .~ I ; I I I ~ ' sort ls show ed nrc that th e jourlley to [lie

pas t a l so has

a

pos i r ivc e l l ' t~ rc ; l ~l i ; ~r s is r o ~ n he pa in fu l and cumula t ive

l ~ ~ ~ r t l e nha t pco1>1c Iil\c

1 r i 1 1 1

I I ; I V ~

I J C T I c : i r ~ - y i ~ ~ gor years .

Ovc r [ l lc next Icw

I I I O I I ~ ~ I ' ~ .11;1111o l ~ l I I C

tha t a l te r l ie had re tu r r~ed rom

our t r ip togc111~1 .I C I I ; I O

1 1~1

~ l ) i l C l ~ - r ~ ~l l ~ o ~ l ti s t e n u r e ill A ~ ~ s c h w i t zor the

first cinic.

I

lis l ~ t ~ ~ . t l c ~ ~I I ~ I ~ I I I ~ I - i c s

1

/ \ ~ r l i ~ l i ~ i t ~a s n o l o ~ i g c r s o n e r o u s a s i t

had been.

interviiwcrl ( :I i . lx ;~~i

ll I

Icl)rcw, i

I ; I I I ~ I I ; ~ ~ C

hat he l lad never really

mas

t e red . I l c g av e I ~ i s c s r i ~ l ~ o ~ l yl l S ~ I I ~ ~ ~ I CC ~ I I I S ,~ 1 tl le ll again , th e characteris-

t ics that I

I l x i

discovcrctl in hi111 ~ I I I I C I -)oaTel., i~ lcc rity , redil)ility, a n d 11011-

csty

-- do

no t ~ tec t l o f ty rhe to r ic .

I

lc ~ ~ c v c rrieci t o prett ify the gha stly reali ty>

never sougli t jnst if icatio i~so r c s c ~ ~ s c s ,levcr placed hilnself a t tlie forefro nr,

anrl i lever por trayed I l imself as

a

he ro o~ as a persorl wit11 special cr edentials.

Even w len l ie Jescribetl I lorrors- the gas, tl le furnaces, the ashes, the incon-

c c i \ ab l c s u f f c r . i ~ ~ g -le spok e s imply an d a lw a~ ls id so in a gentle . restra inecl:

r o n c

o i

volce.

In aclcli tio~l o his o the r f i ~l e i laractcr tra i ts , Shaul h ad the abil i ty to discor, -

nect f i-onn i \ i ~r ch\ ~:i ~rwift y and re t l~ r n o da ily l if e. W h en w e v is ited Jose i

<a;lcar ~oqeth-; .. ih nu l anti Jo se lpoul.ed theruse vcs little cu ps of wi ne, sippec

c o n ~ e n t c d l y .nc e n j o y ed t h e l i o ~ n e c t r e s h m e ~ ~ t ss

1

conduc ted the rntcrIrlews

a n d

IS

t l ie colivcr .sr t io ll rurned to the J-Ioiocausr . The ) we re .imply h ~ p p y

wit11 riicir lot .

This

t il ey e s l ) l , ~ i ~ i e d ,as t l ic ir great v ic tory over Hitler , a b it of

c o ~ l s o l a t io u ~ n i d s the t ~ r ~ l u ~ l t .

\ ~ l l i r ~ i c ~ c rcon tem pla te S l lau l Chaza r i , a

m a n

wlio repre sents ti:e Je wi sl~

colnmirnity of Salonika s o well ,

1

grasp the eno rmi ty o f t li e Ic) ss , thc c~ io r mi ty

of wh a t the mur de r o f s ix ty th ousandJe ws o f S a lon i lta has cos t 11s a l l , J ew s and

11on-Jews alike .

kJr. S l ~ a ~ i lhazcziz, tl~isirtervieiu w ill foctrs irtniirly oil yorrr j~ eri oti ru11r.k

iuith

tile

S or~ i ie rko t iz~~za l?dof A ~ i s c l ~ r u i t z - B i r k e i lm .efo1.e get stclrre'f, h o u -

eve r, l e t2 t r~ke qu ick look a t you r l i b be fo re yo ri we t r t O Arr_crbil~i~e.Y7I~ere

i~rzd uI?eiz lte re yo11 bol.ir?

I

w a s b o r n

i l l

1924

in Salonika, Greece.

1V'o~~ld' o u li k e t o t el l ~ r sonretl~zrrg bo ut yo ur f irrrri1y.j

M y f a t h e r w a s a c l o t h i n g m e r c h a n t . We wer e fo ur chilc lren, t w o b o y s a n d

two

girls . T w o of us snrvivctl :

111y

brc jthc r, wh o e scaped to Athens a n d joined

the pa rt i sans , and I.

Caiz yoti de sc rib e horr ] il l)c',ylirr, 1~~11eirl ~ ee t u s o Snlorrikrl begim to cotrre

rurder restrictions?

W h en the Gern la ns i r~v; it l cc li r 9 ,o ~ l cf m y sis ters was s ix years olt l ant1

tl ie o ther was eigll t . My I I I . O ~ I I ~ ~ I .

L,;IS

ten ;111d wa s sixreell. Dai ly life wa s

usirally undistur1)ecl r 1111 i l

I

v.~.L , r l t s lowly we began to fecl the yokc of the

occupation. Wc all l i :~cl

0

wc,;~ r l lc yellow star , t l ie "yellow I~, lotch."T h e

G e r m a n s b r o k e i n t o

1 1 1 ~ . ~ O I I ~ C S f t l i t '

we:~ltliy,p i l fe red va l r ia l~ le s , nd loo ted

t he s h o p s o f J e w i s l ~ i i c r c l ~ ; i ~ ~ t s .

A f t e r w a rd s , t h e ; C I . I I I ; I I I SC I I I y o ~ ~ ~ ~ g , l c w i s l ~nen awa y fo r fo rced labo r . On

July

r r ,

1942 all ,lcw s ;~i:c,tl c.ik:l~~cC .~~I I fo~- ty -f ive ad to rc l lo r t to Libe r ty

Scluare, a lar ge sclr1.11-c I I ; I I O I I I I < ; ~ .w;is c igli tccn by then .

l't,

ge t t o t . he squa rc ,

you had to go ~ O W I I

I street 1 I 1 ; l r

w ; ~ s

L I I I

f SS men. We were a ll beaten,

kicked, and cursctl o r 1 O I I I . w;iy to t l ic scluare . ' I-he squ are w as half full b y the

r im e w e g o t t l ~ e r r I I I ~ ery ';lowly fillecl u p tot all y \vitln yo un g rnel-I 11y :he

deadline they'd givcn 11s.

Around tllc sclrl;lrth, 111 t l ~ c . oo f t ops , e nna n rnen and wori le l: s tood a n d

scared at us

a s

it tlicy were watching a play. i \ l l o f us ha d t tr d o d i fhcu lc

ca l is then ic s In t l i c scve re l~e a t nd the we ake r one s were h i t wi th I ,a tons to

humiliate the111eve11 mo1.e . Othe rs w ere bea ten i ln ti l they bled. T hen thcy

began to sca rc ll fo r lncn wl lo were e legan t ly d re ssed ; a l lyone who ~ v a s a u g h t

t o o k I ~ r ~ r t a le a t i ~ i ~ .hey ru l led those peop le dow n t l ie s t ree t l ike ba r re l s

a11daskeci t l ic~ii ; Are y ou

a

c a p it a li s t, h y c h a n c e? " T ' h ey t o r t ~ ~ r e dhose peop le

ro

d e a t h . l ' h i s a h r ~ s easted frorn the mor ning anti1 t ile afternoon . I n he m a n -

tirne, they began to register thc m en. I sroud aside; I was in no ru sh

t o

s ig n U ~ J .

A li t t le before two, those \v llo hadn ' t regis tered were to ld

[ t i

c o m e h a ck

011

Sunday.

O n S u n d a ) ~ ,h o s e w h o h a d n ' t r e gi s te r ed a s s e ~ n b l e d . d id n ' t g o t h e r e, I clid~i ' t



nryn up, ar~ t l srayed off t i ~ c i st . W l ~ a t a s 1 supposed to do then? In the

~ n e a n t i m e ,liey begall t o assign all the me n wl~o 'cl igned up for forced labor i11

Salonika an d ill the villages nearby. This went on fo r abou t three to four

lllolltlls.

T / J ~lJell0 ~eriocieg~zrz hen, ciicfrr t

it

The gh et to was cstabl ishccl in la te 1 942 o r easly I 943 in the Haron Hirscll

The g l ~ t t o a s d iv it lcd in to two zones , sou the rn anc l no r the rn . 7 'l icy

inlposccl restr ic t io~ is n nlovelneri t an d soon the Jcw s wrrc r iot a l lowcd to

leave the ehetto

a r

a ll . L iv ing con t l i t i o~ ~s

n

the t iny Iiouscs wcrc ~~ ~~ I> ca l~ ; l l ) l e .

olr~

it i

the Iew c ~ r i~ zh eliuiilg?

'Tliose who did focced lallor outsiclc t11c ~:Ii(,ttoolcl t l~cir ropcrty to CI~ris-

tians in the lna rltet. 111 he g Ii( ~tt o tsclf , 00t1 w;is Il;l~~tlcclu t . And t l i e~ l he

t ra l i spo~ . t so A ~ ~ s c l i ~ v i t r ., c . g ; ~ ~ ~ .

T he t l c l ) o ~ . ~ ; i t i o l ~ s)cg;i11

l l

/\.1;11.cIio , j . l ' lie first to be transported were

tliosc wlio livctl

i l l

111c\ I I O I I I lil.s~. li tral.ter, 111 the ghetto. Additional ghetros

\ \JCI.C

set 1 1 1 ,

; ~ I O ~ I I I [ I

S.IIOIIII<;I- oort l i a11d so ~l th

f

tow11-and a small part of

tlic glirtto I , ~ ~ I I I \ ; I ~ ~ ~ I I Ias tlc1x)rtcJ each time. In May

~ 9 4 1 ,

ur turll came.

'i ' liry (ooI<11s

I I I

t l ~ c v l ~ o l r; ~ ~ n i l y .:irst they took us to the Baron I-Iirscl~

glic%tto.

\

k ~ v

t l i c r I i~~n i l i e shat hadn 't bee11 agile c~ io ug h o cscape were

t l ~ cr c . t11c l ~ ~ c a l ~ t i ~ ~ i e ,he Gernlans hacl the young men rernoved from the

~ o l > t ~ l ; ~ t i o ~ ~Ii;1t

was eartnark ed for deporta t ion-at least twelve hundred

~ O I I I I ~11~11,~~c luc l i i igoyse l f .

\Wl cv.e

10ei.e th e forced ltrborers taker??

LVc I)coplc, tlie young Jew isli forced laborers, w ere put to work building the

S;iIonika-Atliens railroatl. 1:our l al ~ or amps were established especially for

tlic Jcws: Viba, Assopo, I.ianol<landkion, and IZaria. About three hundred

, lc \vs ~vo sked n e:lch of these camps. I was sen t to Assopo , in the mou i~ ta i~ l s

w a r i\the ~is . n fork etl he re for three months. \We lived in 1)arraclts. \Ve wcre

gu iwdct l by Germans a~ l d e ml~ers f other nationalities, lrlainly Yugoslavs

a n d IJk~.ai l i ianswho'tl bcen iocluctecl into the Orga nisation and they

tr.c;ited us viole ~ltly. 3vcrything there was don e m ercilessly and cruelly.

I ) I V i

t is

p~r1 tof thr

orcfe ai erzcf?

111 i\u gu st

1 9 4 3 ,

we firiished the job a nd Ive were take11 back to th e Liaron

I Ill-scii glietto. Th ere we discovered t ha t they'd depo rted our families; all the

I;~nlilics inrl bee11 sent t o /\r1scl~1vitz. n nly gr oup , w hich returne d to the

glictto iro111 lie Icaria ca mp , there w ere three h und red Inen, all as skinny as

i l i i l i ~

l'lic iootl i r i tile ghetto was berrer than it had bcen in the ialmr canlp

~v hcr c c 't l h i l t tl ie r a il road .

I I C 0;i). I W C C I < 01

two

la ter, ar around two P.M. nre were or dered to pack

0111. 111111gs.Vc \vt'rc told tIl:it we were go lng to Poland . Wh en

I

heard tliar, I

f led f rom the ghe t to w ith my b ro the r a t the l a s t ~no mc nt .l ' l~erilnspol-t Icft,

hut my brother and I and a f ew o the r peop le ~nanagec lo evad e i t .

Where

did

you flee?

We a ll wen t in d i ffe ren t d irec tions. M y lxo the r a ~ i J dicln't k11o\~7 hat to

do . I remembered a shop in Sa lo~ ~i l t ahe re I usecl t o worlc. 7'11e sh op liatl

a

department in the basement , a i d a Greek who m knew worl te t l t l icrc . Ar 'to .

we told the Greek our story, he saitl, "Stay here, in the I)ase~ncnt."Y7e stnyetl

there and went into hiding. About half a n \ lour la ter , he raced over and said,

"You've got to get ou t of here." Wh en w e askecl hi ~ n hy, lie said, ''Thr l

sari

you. They'll get us all into lots of trouble." W he n we askecl

l i i ~ l l

llat ro dtr, he

answered, "Get ou t of here , go s traigl i t to that vi llage. Thcrc you 'l l c er t a~n ly

find partisans . You have no o the r c l~o ice ."We to ok his aclvice. 111 act , hc w;?s a

good Inan wh o real ly wanted to help us hu t wr ~s fraid of enda11ge1.11lgimself.

So we wandered l ike nom ads from place to place. Follo wil~ g he Grcelz 's

advice, we walkecl in the nlidclle of the ro ad , ten Inerers apart . Forrunalely, we

had a little money o n us. I said to li ly brother , "We have to f i~id way to get to

the partisans." We wand ered for f ive days, day an d night , ~111til e l-~nal lsncl

Greek col labo rators caprured us in a mo unrainous are a. h l y brother had a

bir th cer t if icate and an

ID

card; 1 didn ' t have an y papers a t a l l . 1 asked my

brotlier for his birth certificate and added Iny o\vn name. 111 other worcls, I

forged it.

"W ho are you ?" they shouted a t us when we were captul .t .c l .

"Jews," we answered.

"W hat are you doing here i l l the moun ta ins?"

"\Ve're w ork ing here, i l l the villages."

"Where have you bcen until now?All the Jews fr om Salonika Ii;~ vc lrcacly

been arrested "

They continued to interrogate in that manner ancl beat us scvo.ely. "Don't

you kn ow that everyone in Salonika has beell arre sted?"

"No , we 've 1)een wo rkin g in the villages."

LVe were inte rrogate d and beaten ove r the head an d on the soles of our feet.

Even t l lougl~t I iur t , we s tuck to ou r s tory alm ut being worl tess in the coun-

tryside and d idn ' t te l l them that we 'd escapecl from Baron II i r sch. That ' s

hecause if so ~u eo ne scaped from the G erman s, they w oult ln ' t 11esit: lte to kil l

them then and there.

But the Germa ns didn ' t bel ieve us and decided ro i~~ vesr igac e1stho r~oug hly~

was taken f i rs[ and ordered

:o

remove nly socks and shoes. They tied the soles

of

y

eer to a s t ick, t ied my ha nds dow nw ards , and

r

nle on the soles

:)t

nly

feet. "Talk," thev said. "W here a re the two of you fro m? :\re

y o u

par t~sa l l s?"

"WTe're not partisan s."



Thc bea t i~ lgs

11

the feet co~ it inu ed nt i l

I

lost all feeling in my legs and feet.

L hurt so badly that my sense of feeling disappcarcd.

I

knew I couldn ' t do a thing; I had nothing lef t to say. We were doomed. At

t ha t n i o ~ ~ l c n t ,he G eri ~x ui l lo conclucted the interrogat ion cam e close tu nie

a ~ i c iaid. "Very well. If you clon't Lvnllt to tell the tr u th ..

.

Suddenly

I

heard n

gu ~is lio t. Iicii tlie officer said agairi, "If you d on't wan t to tell the truth , what

happened to yot i] - b ro the r w il l happen to yon . We have ~ ~ 1 s thot him." I s tuck

to lny s tory abo ut kn ow i~ lg othing an d again they hi t me on my fect and legs.

4

few ~ niri utes gter,

I

was ta l<en to

a

Sorest and forced to undress. A sergeant

began to

interrogate

me again.

"Jcwv, tell nle where you were "

"Nondlerc . I was just moving arou nd am ong the vi l lages."

I

was so afra id of

l?cing killecl tha t I did n't tell tliem t hat I'd escap ed. I made up a s tory abour

how I'tl been w orltirig iu tllc cou ntry side . Tha t's ho w

I

stayed alive.

"Tell me the t ruth Whcre were you ? Do you belorig to the partisans?"

" l ' n~ i c ~ tpart isan.

I

mov e arou nd frorn village to village to make a living,"

J

answered.

a i n ~ c dhe r if le a t me a nd asked again: "Talk. \Vliat d o you kno w about

the parr isans?"

"Nothing," I answe red again.

"Talk or I 'll slio ot you."

After it slowly clawued or1 I litii t h a t he c o u l d ~ l ' t e t a th i n g o u t of I I I ~ ,lc

curset1 and sj7uttered and too k Ine to Pavlo Me la.

\yr /~nt as I 'a li lo M e l d

Pavlo Mela was a pr ison i ll Salonika. They interrogated nle t l ~cr( ,- " I ' ; i r ~ i -

sans . l id you see them ?" So t l iey s tar ted the wliolc t l i i~lg ll ovcr . ' l ' l~c yicl~l

us t ll cre for six n~ on t l ~s .11ri11g hat t i ~l ie , ore Jews wel-c hr or ~g l~ tl l r ~ r ~ t i l~ r r

~ i n n ~ b e r srew to ten, as many a s f i f t e e 1 1 . J ~ ~ ~ .alonikn 11;1cl 11cc11 ~~ ~l )r icc lf its

Jewish pup l~ le t ion xcep t fo r

a

few ~ l i o ' c l vadcrl tlic

r a id ;i1ic1

sevc~ralJcwisIi

l a~n i l i c s ha t he ld Span i sh ci ti zcnsl lip. 011 ly few lcws ~ -c~ l i ;~ i~ lc c ln all of

Creecc ll little places like Io ann ina, 1-a -issa,o r A t l l c ~ ~ stself.

\Vhnt 1)app erred rzext?

Before the Jews of Athens were put

ill

the t I a ida r

concentration

camp,s we

were tak en From the I 'avlo Me la prison to Athens. ' l 'liere w e were treated

appallingly. I rem e~n bc r n especial ly cruel SS off icer who took us to a Chris-

tian del ltist ruid as ke d Illin, "Tel'ell me, w ha t are these " T he d entist ex am lne d us

ancl ans\vcrcd illliocently, "Tl~ey'rehun ~a rl c i ligs." In response, the officer

sliollteri,

Lo,

ihey 9re owly Jews "

We were thr f i rs t

gt oup

that caln e to Haid ar. \Ve stayed there for several

nlontils, 11ntil he rou ntl ~r ps f the Jews of Athens beg an. At first they hro ught

i ll theJews w ho hadn ' t been regis teretl yet , including Leon Co lie~ i , i lo~ li Inct

Tile

cam p filled up slowly until u~ ilc ss iy tnemory 11as

lailrcl

111e

c

mere sixty Jewish prison ers. On e day, tlie 01-clerwas given to ro~lncl p all jews

in Athens who'd already regis tered a~ l d

o

b ~ i n gh e m to tIaida1.. They were all

a rre sted on one day a~ ldake11 o Ha idar . The tell Jews fro111 a lonili:~ nt1 the

Jews from Athens spent ab out a w eek together there .

A few days later, in April 1944 we werc takcn by tra in

re

Auscllwitz. 1 ' 11~

trip lasted teu days. Tlie transport was made

u p

of Jews from vario i~s laces:

Ar ta, Io anu i ~ la , nd o the r p laces .

Please describe your arr i t~n l

n

Ausc /~&~i tx .

Th e tirst thilig

I

11ea1.d rom the Gc rnlans wa s, "Leave everyt hing here c ~ ~ n c

get o u t of t l ~ crai l1 cast ." A l l the f ;lmil ie s c limbet l d o w ~ ~rorii the train and tlie

Selcfitic,ri O I I tlie I,l;~tCor~ll3cg;i11. his was a little hefore eleveti A M Pcople

wel-c sc11t i ro ~l~ .A ws cl~ wi tzo I \ i r k e ~ ~ a u .

I )it/ //lcl

~ ~ r r l l l c ,

iirl:c~rrrrri

r r c 7 t r r r

r l l l ' y / / ~ l l l ~yorr 1 t/1e tillre?

N o t l ~ i ~ i ~ .c wcbr.c*) I . ~ I I 311-c 11;it tlicy'd prlt us to far111 al~o~..Vhe~iwe got

I I I C ~ C ,VC

V C I I ~

tr:~ik;l~tI I I O ;I l ivi~igicll.

\V \ I~I /tt~~rttor.;(*s

/ ( I ~ ( J I

1[11ic* , f t / ~ o s eirs1 tttot~tetit s

11

Birket~~zzi?

1

r c ~ i ~ t . ~ i ~ I ) c ~ .11;it 1.co11 ;o11c1i

V ~

l ie only one of us \vho spolte C kr ~n an .

W ~ I C ~ I Il c * ; ~ < k c ~ lI I C o l the. prisoners where our families were ~ h c risilnci.

p t ' i ~ ~ c c ~ lI ~ I I V W ~ I 10 t ll c s~ i iokes tack ~n d aid, "They' re goir~go Iheave~i."LVe

111(~\) :11 t Ilc w;ls ta lkin g Iionserlse. As ti ~ n c assed, we realizetl tliat sonlethi11 :

~ c ~ . ~ . i f y i ~ ~ gas I ~ a ~ p c ~ l i n ghere. A pungent s~l ie l l t charred f lesh

I I L I I I ~

in tlie

; ~ i r .Wc were sent to the showers a11d had numb ers ta t tooed o ~ i to 111 lefr

fo rea r~ns .My number was one hundred e ig l lty -two t l io l~sa~ i t livr llunclsecl

twenty-seven. From then on, tliat was my nanie. b l y nalne was no longer

Sliaul.

Carz yo z~iescribe this

it

gretlter det~zil?

The v tatto oed thc num ber o n 111yA S I I I as sooli as

I

got tllerc. Sh e). tooli 11s o

the shower room , shaved ou r hair , took aw ay al l our c iot ii ing, g;lr.i. 11s pris--

oners ' clothing, and tattooe d on the nulribers. 'There was solneolie there wirli a

pencil and

a

sizzlillg needle, and he tattooed the number illto eacli Inall: five

dots, five jabs, and blood began

to

flow. Like cattle,

as

if the ): were h ra~ ic l i r l~

us, marltin g us like cattle, that's w hat they

di l

w ~ t hs, toco. We were Iikc cnttlc,

l ike an imals .

4 s they t a t tooed those numbers in t he s l ~ o ~ v e rounls, tve could srnell t lc

acrid

smell of scorch ed flesh, but

we

dicl~i' t et think that

c h r v

w e r e ~ n c i ~ ~ e s . a r

Ing people.

Where w ere you taken (lfie . the tatto oing ?



A I 1 1 1 i c l c l . 1 y I I I C ~ C ; ~ I V CLIS 21

po1.tio11 f

SO I I ~ J

nd then they took us to the

" ~ ~ I I ; I I - ; I I I ~ ~ I I ~ . " '

e ~ y l ~ ~ f o r t ~ l ~ l a t c l yor me, ~ l l a t e ry evening I went out i lu~n-

ccntly to piss at the fence. We didn' t kno w th at we wercn't al lowed to go out

and wa lk nroirnd . T he I'olish )lock elder grab bed me an d hit nle with his fists

until Ile bro ke 111y nose. H e could l~ av eiilled lrle wit11 his fists. We spcnt two

weclzs in the "quarantine."

19ot.v loere p e o p l ~ hose n for th e Sorrtlerkol7ttlzartdo?

l ' h e Gel - rna~ls imj~ ly i si te tl the " qu ara nt i ~~ e"ncl picket1 ou t 250 s t l r ~ ~ l g

men io r labor. We tl idn' t k now w hat we'd been chosen for unti l

w e

hcgan to

work. We began to ~u ar ch o work wi th another

zoo

mell.

Tlotu I I I ~ I ~ Yf t h e

z o o

t ilel l tuere let l ) ~rutrz Greece?

They were all iron1 Greece because i t had been a transport j ro r~ ~;reccc.

I . a te r on , a t the cren~ato r ium ,here we re also Poles, Czec hs, anel Rr1ssi;lns.

t

C r e n ~ a t o r i u m I I I IVJ, there u7erea lso threenon-Jewish I t r l ss i ; l~~s .

IVc walked and walked.

11

he way, xvc askecl, "W l~ crc ~ r c o going

to

w o r k ? "

"In a factory," was the answer. 'rllerl wc rcnc.llctl ;1 s111;1llTorcs~.W looked

a r o ~ ~ n d ,

nd

w h a t

tlitl

wc scc? A littlr t.rrslic Iici~rrc.,I c-orc;lgc

1I1 I y

tself. We

wen1 ~ I I ,ncl wllcr~ h c y l~cnccl hc t loci~. ca

. o r 11cI

I1:11-clly

I)c.lic,vr

I I I I -

eyes. The

W I I O I C

i l~tcrior- i l ~ e

I O I I S >

IV;IS l i l l > c l lvi111 ioclirs ~ ' I . O I I I I I ~ ~ I I I S ~ O I . ~ ,llore t11a11

a thol~s: tnt l o ~. l~sc s .

l ' l l c ,

wllolc

I . O O I I I

W;I S lill('cl will1 I)ocli(-s. rcll~cu~l~erhen1

picking orlt sis or scvc l~ lcrr

- I

w ; ~ s

I I ( > 01 I ~ I ( I I I - ; I I I I

I . : I ~ I I ~ I I ~

>Iotvs

11

us,

Move i t , movr i l ,

S ( ; I I - (

wo~.ki r~) ; "l~~~ic~lcirr;:,~c . ; ~ r i r ~~ : . ; ,11c.y licln't giv e us a

c ha nc e t o th i nk ; ~ l > o r ~ t

1 1 . 1 1

wcs'tl i r l h l sc.c.11. \Vc h ;~ cl

- ~ I I I O V ~

he bodies.

There wa s a pool t l lcre,

a

t l ~ c p>i t ,

;~ l l ( - c lI

~~1 ~1 1 1 1 1 ~c . r . ' ~~

IVc had t o pile the hotlies or loll o(c;icO

o i l ~ ( ~ r

11ccs ; l ~ - t l i ~ ~ c s .t l ler workers

spli t logs ancl we did eve rythir~ gn sc(l11~11ccwoocl, corl~sc s,wood , corpses,

corpses, corpses, ~111tilhe w l~ ol e it wa s lillccl. \ I ) : ~ ~ r c l( g ; ~s o l i n etood there;

i t h a d b e en p r e p a re d I ~ f o r e l l a n d . ' h e

SS

nl;ln w l ~ o as

i l l

chargc poured the

gasolilre, pullccl out a h and gun, an d fired a Icw rou i~t lso set the gasoline on

lire.

Y O LI

c o ~ l l d ~ i ' ts e a l u a tc h . T h e f ir e t o ok h olcl a ~ ~ t lorpses, corpses,

corpses , corpses, throw 'em in, throw 'em in, burn 'em , bur11 'em, Imrn 'em.

0 1 1

an d on, endlessly. Tha t's ho w it was. "Mo ve it Mo ve it " Beatings all tlie

t ime.

" 1 ~ ~ 1 ~ 1 1

11 these corpses a nd w ipe ou t this transpcjrt " We \yere told that

we'd

Ilc;

w o r k i ~ ~ gwelve hours, Imt t l~ at as never twelve hours LVe got there

at tw o an d we dit ln ' t leave ur~ ti l wo tlie next (fay. That 's twenty fo ur hours

straight.

Where

u us

th pool t l ~ n t

lou

iierrtiorzed

u

(ex1 rrlintltes ag o?

l ' lie poud w as also called a "hunker." Just now, wli e~l returned to Ausch-

witz,

I

didn't find the pit or the cottage. It 111usr ave been hel~intlC~.c lna to-

r i u ~ nV [V].

Call yozl desci,ibe tllc pit?

It was very deep,

1

thinli ab out foul-m e te rs de ep . T h e bo di es w er e t l ~ r o w ~ ~

I I

f rom above . We s tood in a group and l~ l ; ~c cdhelii up or1 top o f each c~ ther.Ve

went into the pit with a ladder. After

we

filled the pit, they cl~rrnpecl llc

gas-

oline orlto the hotlies an d the SS ma n fired a bullet an d startcd tlle fire. Th e lire

burned day a nd night, at ld

it

was ou r job to throw tlie bodies in, non- stop.

iVl7ere

did the

botiies cotrte

fronr

Near the pit , there wa s a l it t le house that w as used as a g as c h a ~ n b e s .Af ter

the people went in, the gas was thr ow n in and they felt that they were cl~ oki ng .

Then they sho ~l ted Sherna Yisrael" to heaven, l l ~ r t o one heard the shou t i l~g ,

no one g lanced. Somet i~i res asked ~uyse l i , Where are G od s wo r~der s nd

miracles?"

H ow far wirs the pit fiottz the cottage where the y poisol~ed

he

/ > ~ o / j l c ?

A

few meters, maybe thirty meters.

Were t h Lodrcs

piled

irtlo the

p t

z i r

airy

przrticrllav order?

Yes. We laid the bodies in rows and placed pieces of wood on

top

of each

C ~ V orpses , wood , corpses, wo od.

Wha t k i i ~d ruood d id (Lev zrse?

Th e wood was taken from tall trees, not boards but real hunks o f logs.

Hoto tnany Sutzderko~t~i i lat idoizeH tuorketl r l f I I I "Irlrlrkers"

a t

{ e tiric:

About three huntlred m e n in all, I think.

Did y ou ever see iuorrzarz nnzoizg th e Sorrderkorrtnlarldo tr,lorkeis.i

No , only m en were chere. People said that at f irst he re was a w onla:? r wrz

wh o shaved her hair , but

I

didn't see her.

W l ~ e r e

id

yo [ sleep at the iirtze?

\Ve slept in a barra cks ill Birkenau, nu mb er

r

r

o r

I

3

From there we walkrti

to W ~ I - kveryda y. W hen \tie retur ned to the b arra cks, they m ade 11s sills.

\Ve

sallg songs il l Greek, folk songi.9 The G erlnans loved t lie souild of the G k e k

langua ge. KJe sang very loudly.

Was yoltr Darracks ur~d er zlnrd

Yes, but

i t

wasn' t necessary because we were sealetl iu from the o~~tsidc.

What 's more, there was nowhere to escapc to. The latrines were also

in

the

barracks, so thece was no need to go

out

Wa s there erzollgh food?

We got the sam e food as all prisoners in the camp. Wherl you havc a joh like

this you don' t think ab out f oo d at al l . 'Phc only thing

I

t h i ) ~ r ~ l l tb o u t w a s h o w

to escape.



Did you h u e tirrle t o co ~lv ers e it h o tl ~ er orztierko17t17zar7do 1l7erl~bers

Z

yo11 worked?

N o, tlie Icap o alw ays pu shed 11s to w ork faster. As timc passed, ale got

particu larly depre ssed. We clicln't feel like thinking people anym ore. \Ve just

worketl , a te , an d s lept , like autonia tons.

We re yort be~zlerz r~rirzg l ~ a tirrze?

Everyone w as beaten , no t just nie. We were beaten on the back ancl over

t he

hea d. Th is system didn't leave us any time t o reflect aho ut w11e1.cwe were

a l ~ d

wllat wc w ere d oin g. XVhenever w e lagged even a littlc, they [lent 11s right

away.Io

ith

ubat tlitl th e Ger.n~arls it yord

They llit us witli a rod or a lash. 'The

SS

m e n h a d sl>cci;il r~l)l)cr11l)c:s.

\Y%err did y ou first see a trarlsport o fJ eu ~ slrri~,iil,:

1

I / r .k ( , / / r / /~?

Scvera l t r anspor t s came in the f ir st two weeks . r c '~~ l (v l~ l ) (* r

I I ( , I I

I l i n t S ~ W

t ra l ls p or t a r ri v e- 1 h e a r d s c r e ~ l m i ~ ~ g .h e s c l - c ; ~ ~ l ~ i ~ l g11 ;1 r c1 .111) t (~ lr(1111he

peoples' throats was harcl to believe. It

W;IS

;I I I I I ~ : ~ I I . ; I I I S I ) O I . I -;1I111ost three

t l~ ou sa nd eople . Th e scrcal i is reaclle tl 1111

I O

I I ~ . . I V ~ . I I .

I I I ~ I I

I I C ( ~ ; e r ~ ~ ~ a n s

slaiighteretl those people, 1 1o t o ~ i c >y o ~ l c)ul I ) y I I I ( . I I I O I I S ; I I I ( I

C V C I I

; lt t ha~

e ar ly p l~ i is c , ;~ s k e tl ~ ~ y s c l f ,Wllel-c

; I ~ C

; ot l's w o ~ l ( l ( ~ ~ - s

I I I ~ ~

~ ~ i v ; ~ c l c . s ? "hey

thre w tlic g;is

i l l

n ~ l t l I I I I I . C I C I . ~ C I 1 1 1 ~ 1 1 1))I

0 1 i ~ cS:IW :i W O I II ~ II I v l ~ oW: I S ( * I I l)cl1111(1,I I I ~ I ( I ( * , W I I I I

;I

Ii111c

);il)y,

The

gas cIi:i1111)er fiIlc(1 II I ) , I I C * l o o 1 . 5 \ v ( . I ( ~o . k ~ l , I I I ~ I I l ( * W O I I I ~ I I I :111cl lie kid

r e ~ i l : ~ i ~ ~ e dt~tsiclt,.W I I O

< I I O V V S ,

111,1yl)(.I I I ( . I .S( , I I I ; I I I IV ( ,O O . \ I I I I s; iw o11Iy

the wo ma n ancl Ilcr cllil(l. I c - : I I I still \ . . i~ ;I.; i I I I \v( .I .( .c . s~( -~ . t l ;~y .I I SS nialr,

a

yo1111g uy, ei glitc e~l31- ~ T V C I I I ~ * ; I I . sh , 1 0 1 . t ~ I IikI I I . O I I I 11s I I O I I I C ~ ~ arlns

ancl killecl it, and thcn lie killccl 111(. I I I O I ~ I ~ I - .O O . I I ( . ~ I I O I

r l ~ c . W O oI

tllc~iln

co ld b lood .

0 1 i e cvcning, after the corpses Ilad

I~cc.11

. I . ( . I I I ; I I ( . ( ~ ,

I

t ~ . ~ ~ ( . l i I t ) i \ ( l

.

01~1, ick,

a ~ i dl is al ll ed p e o pl e c a m e hy w i th c l o t h i ~ l ~I I I ( ~ 1 I I . I I ~ I ~ I I , : ~ ,I I I I I I I C ~ l t l~i~ped

every th ing ou t

01:

tlle tru ck as if it we re a loacl oIi:r;ivc-l,

S I I ; I I ~ : ~ I Il l l o rile

pit-

w h i le th e ~ e o p l e e re st il l a li ve I s a w t hi s t h v i r r O I I ( ( .I I 111y lit.sr

t l ; ~ yof

wo rk wi tl i t l~ c onderk orn~nan d t , nc l aga in , w ller l

1

I - I .

r

I . ; I I I . ; ( I ~ I I . I S

C;IIIIC' .

The

l > e( ~ p e e rc ~ h r o w n nto the "bunl<er" a~ ic l u rned i~ l ivc . ;~ I so . C I I I ( * I I I ~ ) C T

Greelc jcw fl.0111 t l ~ e o ~ ~ t le r k o m m a n d oho jumped i l l t o

I I ( .

lire.. I I ( . s: ~w hat

was go ing 11a~lc lcnpecl into the pi t . Th at w as that .

W /) en o11 ? .e~rt- /~c ,</h ( ,pils, &ere ill the forest. wh at

' l id

yo11

lc~cd

We hael

2

g u t f cc 'l ill l: t l ~ ; ~ te could n't identify. We didn't k11ow :I

1 1 l i 1 1 ~ .

1 1

t lic onc hand , I

saw

t l l c *

Ilotlic~s lown there; o n the othe r har~cl, l~c.

< : I ~ o

: I I I ~

the SS rnel l were I~ cat i l~ ):

I I ( . ; I I I ( I

c ~ ~ r s i n gt nie all tha t tinle, to 111t.:Iccollll)illll-

rneli t of barking dogs. t wax h(.II O I I earth. If there's a hell aftcr tlc;lt11, l l l ir lk

it

must look like that.

I t

was hell, real hell. There it wasn't I ques t io~ l i w i le ti~e l -

to believe or n ot. A persol1 wh o finds hiniself in tlie midd le

of

Rirltenau

rocla ,

doesn 't k now, doesn ' t understand how sucll a thing could have I~a ppcn ed:

young guy, twe nty years old, in the

SS,

s h o o t i ~ ~ gbahy who's few nlontlis ole{

and th e n s h o ot i n g h is m o t he r . I- lo w c o ul d s ~ ~ c ht h in g ha v e I i a p p e ~ ~ e dn our

world? \Vhat were the inner th oug hts of the you ng guy like?

Whert did yott begirl t o wo rk at C rellzatorilir~z

1

111]?

Eventual ly the Germans f igured out that cremating the corpscs in pi ts , as

they did in Birkenau, wasn 't an appr opriate solut ion. W hat ' s more , winter was

coming fast , so [hey couldn ' t c arry o n tha t way. 'That' s \v\ i (~yliey Ixgan to

incinerate the people in crematoria. They assigned us t o \vork ill the cre11iiitc~-

riu rn . I w e n t t o C r e ~ n a t o r i u ~ n IIII] ancl stayecl there until the e nd.

transport arr ived almost every day,

sometimes

I l lore than one. Crcma-

tions tool< place every day. Day a nd night, they burne d t he bodies of Jews

there. The f urn ice s burned day an d night and we alw ays l iacl to c lean u p the

crematorium an d th e crem ation facil i ties.

Carl you describe lr~ hnthe crenlatori1~171rtiltfirrg lo oke d like frorrr t l ~ erltside?

From the outs ide i t looked l ike a ra ther ordinary huilc l ing made of red

bricks. The undressing rooins a nd t he gas chambn-s w ere in the bascm ent . 7 .11~

furnaces were o n tlic gro un d floor a nd 011 the upper f loor was a lof t . From the

outside, it looked like an ordinary building. You'd never suspect- a th ing . The

relnatorium was surrounded by an electric fence with \vatchtowers. Eve11

when sonleone managed to escape, he had n ow l~ er e o escape t o . G e r n r r r ~ ~ s

were stationecl in every corner, th e gua rdin g was top -ncltch.

\V'cis there alwa ys a gu~ zrd t t l ~ ere~uratorilr~rlate?

Certainly. Ther e were tw o shifts there , clay a~icl 1iglit.Twicc a clay we wcre

cou~ited t rol l cal l. Escape w as absol t l tely o ut of the quest ion.

Ca17 you descr ibe th e w or k at Crellzatorilrrrz

IT

/111]

At Crematorium 11, everyone had a specific ioh. Thc w ork took place in tw o

sh i f t s : ~~ ig l i th i f t and day sh i f t . Each s l~ i f t \ a s twelve hours lo llg . wo rk rd , i~ l

the t~ r ld ress in~oom and a l so I -emovedbodies fr(j111 he gas ch anll >e~ -.

The Germans rushed the victims into the unt lressing room ant1 beat <iny one

who lagged behincl. They left no time fo r reflectio n. "h.love it ~b lov et Mo v c

it " Those were the on ly wor ds you coulci hear ther e. The . ditln't give anyol le a

moment to wonder where he was . Anyone who go t the re co~ ~l c l~ l ' tl i i~lk t a l l .

The undress ing roo m was u nder g rou ~ld ;t had be~icl les nd bangel-s. Everyone

~vi10'darrived w as told they h ad to h an g up th e clothes anel 1.etllernl)er .vilcre

they 'd I lu ~lghenl . The y said that so n o one woulcl

imagine

i ~ ~ l i a t

as

coming .

The people und ressed, crossed the r ooln , and f iled into the gas cham l~el - l le

aiter another.



IVl~ere uere you as tile people 1 ~7zdressed?

We were in t lle undressing room. T here were G csmans there , too, Thev

stood t l icre with batons and m oved the people alollg . Th e German s didn 't

a l low us to talk with tlie people because wc might disclose some thing to then].

Af te r cvc ryo~ iciad choked to dea th OII the gas, we were ab le to s tar t working.

Did people ol:c-r~sio~inllyefMse to ~ i i~dressnd insist on keeping some of

tl leir clotl~e s

71.

It certainly cou ld have happcmed, I ~ u t didn't see it. Tliey wcre taken to the

gas chambe r ancl that was that . 'The German s beat them and shouteel

at

tllcr~l

as they went, so it all

happened

at record speed.

Pleizse tiescribe a day i n you r ru orkin g li fe, fronz 1.1~0r7zi7igo e~ l~ l i i t l g .

Sometimes 1 had to wo rk wit11 people who'cl already put i l l twc lve l lo~~rs

straiglit and h ad actua lly finished th eir shift. Th e job was only

Ii;iIC

tlollc;

I l ; ~ l f

of t l ~ e as chamher roo m was s t i ll ful l and I had to cll.;lg rllc hoclics o ~ t . llell

xve fin i shed , we poured wa te r on to the f loo r o f tl lc roo i i~ , l c ; ~ ~ ~ c ~ lu t r .c r l~a i~~-

ing Zyklorl crystals that had been c lrop~~cc l

ll

fro111

~ I ~ o v ( * - -I I ~ o I I ~ ~ ~

I I C at-

t i cework sha f t s -and thc gas c l i a~ n l~ c ras tidy ;111cl r c . ; ~ t l y

O I -

I S C ;~g: i i r~.

In

the lneantinle,

a

t r a ~ l s l ~ ~ ~ . t;illic i l l Cro111 llc ol ll c~ .iclts ;111tl I y tllcn I was

stack there for another c igl~r

I O I I I . S ; ~ C I C ~

I ( I

; i l r t ' ; l t ly

~ v o r l i c ~ l-ot~r1o11rs o

finis11 t l ~ e

ork

that re~n;~ir iecll . tc~-11cpr t :v io~~sr;iris11or,t

1i; icI

l~ccri illed off.

When the tsanspnrt calne, tllc pcoplc wcrc lccl clow~i 0 t i l e ~~r l ( l r c s s i~ igoolil.

T l ~ e a s c h a ~ i i h c r a s c le an b y t hi s t i ~ l ~ e ,

I C

e l i l i l ; ~ l i o ~ ~as wol.kilig accord-

i ~ l go regulations , there w as n o oclor, ancl ~li cy c1.c t;~lic~rl Iic gas chamber.

Af te r the doors were c losed , the ve~ i t i l a r io~~;is 111r11cd

o /

i111d lie people

began to not ice that thcy wcre about to c lic . l ip t l lc ~ ~ ,~owcvcl., here was

nothing thcy could do . I t was al l over .

Did yolc tirloiu beforehand rr bat iourttry the I W ~ S ~ ) C ) I . I1~icI o7tze from?

No , we heard nothing but rumors. The "ICanacla" workcrs were always the

firs t to kno w evcryt l iing because they wcre on t l ie p latf or~ n.Therc was a junior

officer who rode

a

motel-cycle;

he told us when a t ransport was

going

to arrive

so that we could s tar t up the furnaces.

J ~ O I L ar in aduance d id you get the i7zformation?

All llour o r tw o, so t hat w e'd i)egi~i o sto ke the furn aces wit11 coal an d get

tlic fire to bur11 properly. Tlie idea was that everything sllould be ready. By

crematioll tinie,

I

mean, when the bodies were to be thrown in, the fire was

suppo sed to be burnilig nicely. It was like a barbecue, where you have to start

the f i re I~eforehand. ou can ' t have a barl~ecuewithout f ire, can y ou? I t was

the sanle thing here . I 'he wllole thing was the same.

Hort IUCI. E the uictiuzs rfivided attrolzg th e c reit~nloria ?

Wl1e11Crenia to l -iu ln I1 [HI] was w o r k i~ ~ gt full capacity, the transport was

takcn to Cre mat oriu m 111

[TV].

There \vas

a

German rvho rode on

a

111oto1.cy-

cle. H e was called t he "angel of death ." I-Ic rocle over ant1 said w1ie1.e l ~ c

furnaces sl~ ou ld le fired up. He was a littie guy, alw ays sam e fellow. ic

knew everything ab ou t dividing up the work. h frer all, it was his job.

Another SS man, officer Moll, was a real saclist. He'd stick a whistlc i l l

peop le ' s ~ i~ou t l i snd sh oot a t i t . So~iiet i rnes e shot people

i n

tllc lie;id.

They

were al l s ad is t s . Mol l a lways wandcrcd a r o u ~ ~ dl ie c re l l~ ;~ to r ium.

id the transpor~ls tsuiilly arrive at rzigl~t, r cfi: t / ~ e yrlso corrie ill tllc d i r ~ ~ ?

Sonre by day, some by ~liglit.Bu t i t d i tln 't ~n ak e b it of d if ference . W h a ~

111atteredwas when the c remato r ium was empty . So~ne t in~eshe transpol.tq

liad to wait on the railroad track because there wasn 't ally toom ill tile crema-

toria.

Please dessr.if7e your elzcotlnter with t l ~ e eople zul ~o i,l,zved in t / ~ e/. (~trs-

ports. Did you have a chance to converse with thern?

No. A fter i l l , I didn't speak their language.

1

o11ly knew Greeli and I_.adino.

Just once,

I

managed to speak with them.

I

found a neighbor

oL

mine from

Sa lon ika in a t ranspor t f rom Bi~n a . saw h i tn f rom a far , to t t e r i~ ~gn one leg.

"Shaul , how are you?" he asked.

How

are things?" I asked Iiiru.

I

was shocked

to see him th ere.

"Eornbs, the Americans,

I

got wounded and they had to cut off my leg

Then he asked m e exactly how he woultl die.

So

he k n e u ~hat bzs elzd rilns ncilr?

Yes, definitely. H e knew it frorn the tnon~ ellt ie caluc ro the cre llatovlum.

asked him, " Wh y ? Wh a t g o o d

~ 1 1 1

t d o y o u ? "

"No You've g ot to tell me. At least \ve silould knoxx," he ansrvcred.

Tdc

wasn't concerned about the very fact that he was g o ~ n go d ~ e ; e lus t w a n t e d

to know everything.

So c-)Idhim. "Here's h ow it wor ks: you get undresseel in the bas e~ nc nt ,

vit

11

.

everyone else, and then all o f you go to the gas. T he ~ a si~~is l l e sou oii

rrid

then they burn tlie corpses." H e wante d to kn ow, so 1 cold him.

Personally, I wasn't sure if 1.J g et o u t o f th er e d i v e 1k ~ i e wli lt olie ciie l'il

die too, hut 1didn't k no w when, m aybe the next week , 11i;lyl.e t l ~ eollowing

month . Life didn 't matter anym ore; death was to o close. \Vc nevel tho ught

ahout l i fe but we thought abou t death day and night , every o~ inu te .

1Grer1't

1 11

afraid of f i~ ldi t7~e1n 'tive s n v ~ o ~ i g/le covflses?

No , because my fanl i ly had been sent t l~er en 194 nd

I

I l ldo ' t r rc ircd o~it l

1944

Did anyo7le in the Sorzderko7n77za7zlio 67zd

I

reiatitle?

O n one occasion, a man w ho had a brother in t he S o ~ ~ c l e r i i o ~ n ~ n a n c l oame .

Ld

orre o i h r m

t c >

He [ the b ro the r ] knew the 55 men w ho work ed there. I-te ask-



save his brothcr from extermination. The SS man answered, "He'll die one

\\lay or another, if it isn't today, it'll be tornorrow." Tlie

SS

man saved him from

tlie crer nato riu ~n ut put a bullet

in

him soliiewhere else.

Once a trailsport fronr Corfu came. One of niy co-workers in the cremato-

rium was fon ner Greek army officer nanied Peppo-Josef Baruch.]' He heard

that his family hat1 artived fro111 Corfu antl liad been t aken to Cremato rium IV

IV]. Polish IZapos who were ill contact with the Ckrmans worked tliere.

He

told then1 tha t liis family hat iar rived and lie wanted permission to visit them in

Crenlatorium 1V [V]. They l&lii~ndo it; he walked over to Crernatoriuln V

[ V ]

and saw liis family. ~fterw ai.;l s, asked li i~ n,Josef, did

~ O L I

ell them that

they were abo ut to be

murdered?

Ie answcred, "How coultl I tell tliern such a

thing? I just coultln't d o it." I-le saw his relatives, but didn't sap a thing. Really,

what could he have toltl them?

f

he'tl told them, wha t good could it have done

by tllcn?

AizJ you, yourself- io~rlrt'l~tyou rrlake persoizal corztact w it h aizyoi?e other

iharl t )e group froill ~ ; ~ c c ( .c ?

No. There weren't ally Illore groups from Greece. See, it was almost over

b y

the tinlc 1crime. Thc last (;l.ccks were the ones frorn Corfu, who were senr to

Crematol-iun~V J V I

I I I ~

ipetl O L I ~ .

D o

~ 0 1 1

e t i t e l t ~ l ) ~ i ~ ~ ~ t ~ y

I . O U /

t / ~ lari ic t~ lar?

Yes, once two 1in11cll-ecl liilclrc~l ged eight to ten came. Tlley knew they

were about to be killed. S o ~ ~ l e o ~ l eiatl told tliern. They brought them in. It was

e s p e c i ~ l l ~errifying and gllastly.

LWl~erewei z the chi1tii.e~ iorrr

don't know, maybe from Pol a~ ~t l.

Please describe the gas cl~arrzbel..

The gas clianlber a t Crenlatoriurn I1[Ill]was underground. It liad gray walls

and a gray ceiling. The floor was concrete. Thc chamber was large ellough for

a transport of twenty-five hundred pcoplc

i f

not more. The transports were

always lcrl into the gas chamber in olle go. They pushed evcryone in. They

looked liltc show er rooms. They ha d a ventilation system that created a flowof

air. There were sllowerl~eacls n the ceiling, rlext to each other. The whole

cciling was lull of shower lieads. l 'li ey were for "disinfection," the people were

told. Everyo~~cho ente red tlie cllanlber really thought he was going to talte a

sliowcr. But not a drop o f watel- came out of those sl~owe rhe ads. he people

were packctl in i~~ltilhe gas cllan~berwas full. Ylie door was locked after

evcryone was inside.

\V l~u t ~npperied f ter t l ~ e oor was closed?

Alter thc door was closetl, tlie ventilation was turned off. Then some Ger-

mans rolled up in a car that had a Ked Cross emblem on it. T he cans with tlie

gas werc in tlie car. One of tlie Ge rma ~ls ut on a ~ na sk nd threw the gas

111

from above tlie chambe r he contents of one can through one mri~ltlonl, hc

contents of the second tliroug1l the next, antl so on. Wh at kind ot gas \vas i t ?

I t

looked like bits of gravel. After a few seconds or a few r ~ i i l ~ u t e s o u rl-ains

weren't working very well because of what was Iiappening tliel-c-everyo~le

was dead. As soon as tliey'd tliey (lied, the doo r was opened and we 11aJ o I-un

for our lives. Sometimes there were still residues of toxic gas tliesc ant1 wc

might have choked if we'd inhaled it.

FIotu nzatly doors did the gas cb nnzbe , hove?

One door . Tlie people entered tlie chamber tl~r ougl i t and we usecl it to

remove their Lodies. Tlie door was a little larger than the door of a house. I

heavy doo r made of iron.

We re tuoine lz arzd rrze11 tog ethe r irz th e gas ch ai~ zbe r.?

Everyone was together, whole fa~iiilies,ayer upon layer of thcm. Tlie ; were

always all together .

Could people mo ve nroulzd freely ill thegizs cha ti~h er?

Absolutely not It wasn't possible, and no one could get out . These wasn't

enough room. The people were packed up against each other like snt.dillcs.

Were yo11 ofte n irzside the cl~ nr~z bri.?

Yes, yes, regular1 y.

You said that t l ~ eas was t/~rotuizll t l ~ ~ ( j ~ t ~ 1 ~pettirrgs i 7 tbe criliizg. Did it

fir s traigh t to th e floor o r o il to t h ~reople's he ads?

No, no. There were several openings. A lat tice~vo rk liaft came rlowl? f :or~l

each opening. The mesh was t nade o f i2erforat-ed metal; it ran from the will-

(low in the ceiling to the floor. And the gas, in rlle for111 of little pellets, w s

thr o~v n own the hollow shaft. The smell spread. That was the gas.

Diri t l ~ eha f t reach t l ~ eloor?

Almost.

A

sniall space was left so that you could clean there. We poul-ecl

water on the floor and swept up what se~nai net l f the pellets. We always

poured water tliere; that made it easier to drag ant1 pull the corpses along the

floor and to clean np the feces and the filth12 eft

by

tlic victin~s.

The Germans kliew exactly liow to tlesigii the gas clia~nl )er ith max in il ~r ~

efficiency. Even if tliey'd left t he people tliere fol- a whole hoi~r itliout gas,

everyone would have suf focated. It was e11ougI1 o close tlic door. Thc I-oonl

was hermetically sealed. The walls were made of concrete; there was no way

for fresh air to come in, notlii~ig.The ventilation systern luade it possillle to

enter the chamber without risk of clioking.

Hotu tiid the uerztilutiorz systerlr w or k?

The ventilation was installed

111

tlie wall?. You \voultl~~'t

lot ice

rr ;

all

y o u

could feel was thechill. 1-oucould hardly licar i t . Tliel-e was a rnetal cover w ~ t h



opei i i~igs11d cold a ir came iri almost the en tire length of tlie wall. Th e ventila-

t ion wo rked all the t ime; i t nras turned ofl only when the gas was thr own 111.

Tlie Germans did a very effective job of camouflage. They considered it su-

preincly iniyortant to maintain a nlarltle of secrecy until the last moinent.

Perfect deceptiori.

W a s it dark there, ov tuas the chal116e~llr4minated after. the p eople ruere

packrri in?

T l~ cr e as Ilghting; there had to be since the Germ ans looked dow n to see

wliethcr everyone had died. So the people stood in the l ight. The window

in

the door w as pretty large.

\Vberr

tile

SS ntelz opened the shaft fronz overhead a nd t hre w in the gas,

could the people see rl~a tolirething was happening, that sovrethllzg was berrrg

thr.oturz r r z

All you could notice w as the pu ngent s n~ el l f the gas as it spread. Then the

screanling began. Everyoilc was inside, the door was closed, no ventilation,

an d then they begaii to sense the gas. Olily at th at ~n orn en t id the people

realize that they'd heeri tricked.

Co tild yorr I~errr ile peollle srrcnirr ilig?

I

renienl l )e r t l~a th cy 1 )r ay et l. o l t e ~ ~eard the prayer "Shema Yisrael."

There wasn ' t much le f t 1 0 ay, not nlucli mor-e tha n "Sliema." But no one

heard, n o one saw. 0Ctc11 toltl n~ yself , Where shou ld the won ders an d mira-

cles tak e place i f I I O ~ 1er.e nt1 11c>w?" h1t othin g h appe ned . It w asn't a rnatter

of ten people; it was all entire 1>eol1le.Wlo~ltlers ild miracles were definitely

needed there, L ~~ l o t l l i r ~ giappelictl.

H o w lorqg did

t

tak e 14rqtil h e iloo r ofgr zs

C ~ N I I Z ~ I P ~

uas o i~e lze d giliiz?

The doo r was opened af te r the SS i lleri cl lccketl to innkc sure t l~ a t veryolie

was really d ead . But yo11 cou1di1't g o nea r th en, I)ecause there was still active

gas in tlie air. It enda ng ere d the lives of aliyorie w ho s tootl t1ic1,c. 1'lle cloor

was

oyenecl, the SS illan backed away, an d then the ventilators w ere turne d 11;lnd

the cloor stayed open for half an hour. The gas wafted away and we coultl

begin to work .

LVIwt

dzd >,OM see nt the i l lornent the do or of the gas chnnzber was opened?

I

saw the corpses , dead people s tanding l~ k eta tues. The od or was horr~ble ,

slnce the people had lost control of their bowels o ut of sheer fright.

Drd t ~ rorir ires haz'e a si~e cial olor?

1

clicln't notice that. We didrl' t think ab ou t the people; we thought abou t t lie

air . If we thought abo ut the people, ab out the place where w e were, we would

have gone insane a t once .

Dld it ever h npt ~ei l llat sowreone ruas still alive dfte r the doo r o f the gas

cl~airzber uils ol ~e ne d?

I

never encountered any such th ing . In my o pl n~ on , t couldn ' t h ,~ be ap-

pened. Everything was sealed an d t l ie gas couldn' t seep ou t.

Afte r a fetu da ys , drd yorr becon ze rrzdrfferent to th e srght of the

g.rs

~l~ , rnrbrr

being ol~e ned ?

I'd s to p pe d h c ~ ~ i gunian by then. If I' tl been human, I coulcln' t h, ~v e n-

dured i t for even on e minute. We kept

b e ca u se ~v e' cl o st o rl r l l l ~ ~ l ~ a i ~ i t

Dzd i t ever llappen tha t people tu l~ o arted tllezr irrrlz or~ ts z~ iel ~ erzs c11ai11-

ber were eventually tnurdereti els et~ , /~ ere ?

\When the gas ch am ber filled up and ten or tw eiily people still reiiiaiilecl

outside, al l naked, they were taken upstairs to a place near the fi~ rna ces h ~ l t

looked like a guard's booth and were all shot in the back of the ~iecl< ~

handgun with a silencer.13

The Germans shot people upstairs, near the furnaces.

J

was to ld ahou t thc

time tha t

a

Jewish family from Germany came. Back i ll Germany,

the

Gcrnian

guard had ,been their neighbor. They ate and dra nk together all that night, and

i l l

the mor ning the gu ard sh ot them all , each one separately. That 's ho w the SS

men behaved. Right a f te rwards , the Sonderkom mando i llen w ho w orked

up-

stairs carried the corps es to the furnaces. There w as ~lo thil l g lse to do; t liey'cl

been sho t right there.

Half a n hou r after the gas cham ber do or wa s openecl aiitl the veiltilation was

turnedon, we began to wo rk. We opetled t lie wi~i do wsii thcceiliilg and began to

relnove the bodies . Each of us did his own job. I workecl with the bodies.

al~ologizeor askirrg you to go into such detail . E.uactly f u l~ n fid 3,orr do

\We began t o take ou t the bodies. At first we didn' t kno w exactly l low. The

bodies were pressecl to each othe r, stuck to each oth er iike sardines.

7'11~11

hcy

broi~ght s a l o i ~g ole , a l~i tchfor l< ,nd explained , "Gral, the m I,y the loose

s kin a r ~ dug. Tha t way you' l l manage to remove the w hole body." And that 's

illst w11at we did: we rem oved the bodies w ith the p itchfo rk 1,ecausc it co~~ lci i ' t

Ile t lo~ le therwise. The gassing made the hodies st ick t o each oth er as if they'd

been glu ed. We re move d b odies w itho ut a mc)merit's 131-eak.As the gap chair?-

ber s lowly e~npt ied u t , we had mo re room to lnanel lver . We ~ o u r c d a ter -on

the concrete floor to mak e i t mo re sl ippery and t o niakc the boclies easier to

drag.

Did all o f you hawe to reinove bodies frorit the gas cl~r ~rr ~l~ er .?

Yes, every prisoner carried one body each tiine. Fol lack of space, two men

went in first. Afterward s, after a few bodies had been take11 away, the~ .ew s

room for m ore people to enter and relnove hodies. Tliat 's ho w w e div~c ed l lc

w o rk a mo n g o ~~ r s e l v e s .

W h o poured the water on the floor?

\We did. Wheneve r we felt that the floor was dry, we turned 111 the tap.



\V/~ at ilethod did you use to rernoue the bodies?

On e af ter another , bo dy af ter body. On e, two, one, tw o, one , i tvo. I t went

slowly; it took hou rs. It wasn't so n~ et hi ng ou coulcl clo in a minute . It was like

a ware house ful l of crates that you have to take ou t , except that w e removed

bodies. O ther tha n that , the whole thing worked the same way.

D id yo u i~ l r~ eo use force to separnle t l ~ eoriies?

Yes, sometimes W e c l i d a l ~ l ~ o s tverything with a pitchfork, not with our

hantls . Tl le pi tchfork m ade i t easier to separate the bodies .

I-low loirg ciiti it take to rerlzoue tluelzty-five bodies from tl ~e ga shainber?

Twelve hour s, mayl,e even lo~i ger . didn't feel a thing; thou ght I was

dragging crates. We didn't treat

tile

corpscs with kid gloves; we just pulled

the111 as

i

they wcre inanimate obje&i.

Ho io u lere the bodie s delivered fioriz he gns cbaiizber t o th e fttrrzaced

To ca r ry the bod ies f rom the lo~ vc revel, whe re the gas cha mb er was , to the

furn aces , we needed an clcvator. \Vc packed six to eight bodies into the eleva-

tor, depending oil the size of the 1)oclics.Th e elevator went u p t o the furnaces,

a n d there they were crcn~ ntct l .

LVns it nil elec tric e/ ei l rto r?

Yes, it was sliapecl likc

a

large nlet;il table on which the bodies were zr-

r a ng e d. It w a s a l i ~ ~ o s to~rlplctcly lat an d i t may have h ad w alls on the s ides .

The e leva to r wen t a few ~llerel-s p wit11 its load of bodies an d retu rned empty.

Please Jescrii~ehe c.i.ciiratioir process.

We wash ed the bodies before cre~nati l lg hem. Crema tion took place day

a n d n i g l ~ t .T llc re , o n tllc f ~ ~ r ~ l a c cloor, they developed

a

system: they put

skinny bodies together with a fa t hocly 1)ccause fat speeded up the creln atio~l

process .14 [ t was harder with sk im y bodies; the f i re refused to burn. This is

I IOW

they cr c~ na te d odies all the timc - we re~n ovecl he bodies fro111 he gas

c1ia1nl)cr and they w cre crctnatecl ~ ~ ps ta ir s .veryone there had a specific job;

befo re the c re~ naion, they shearecl the hair off the bodies, so me one pulled out

tlicir teeth, ant1 som eon e else removed rings an d jewelry.

For t11e irzost przrt, ho ~r ~e ue r,oti were irz t l~ eg ro upha t reirroued the botiies

froin tile cllalniler after tile peo/)/e suffocated

?'hat's right, from the timc I first joined the So nder kom ma ndo until I left

Auschwitz , dragging bodies was

my

main job. Other pr isoners-I was nor

a m o n g th e ~ n - w o r k e d a t th e f u r ~ ~ a c e s .abai , for example, worked at the

fu r~ iaces . - le threw bodies into the f ire as tho ug l~ t were a facto ry iol).

\Vas cwrilntioiz t l ~ eust stuge r the process?

No t ent irely . Corpses were re~ nov ed rom the gas chamb er arou nd t lie

clock. They w ere cre~ri ated pstairs and every two or three days we re~noved

the bones fro m t lie furnaces. We deal t with this

011

days when no transports

arrived. There w as a wa reho use full of bones there . First we hacl to sniash tlic

bones until they were no large r than pieces of gravel. All that re maine d of tell

or twenty thousand people who'd come t llere over a two-weel< pcriod wa s 2

little pile of gravel Afte rwa rds we took rouncl woo dell poles wit11 Iiandlc;

arid usecl them to pulverize the bones to dust . You wo~ ll t l~ l ' telieve

i t :

tl10~1-

sands of peop le turned int o a hea p of dust.

W l ~ e r exis t l~ is ork done?

Next t o the furnaces on the ground f loor, but outs ide,

i l l

a y ar d ~ ~ n d e i -little

roof . Th e warehouse of bones, where we worked , was there , too. After we

fil lished, we picked up the ashes ant i loaded the m o nto a t ruck .

We saw the t ransports arr iving with their thou sands of pcople , and al l that

remained of them t l ie next morning were ashes. After a n~onth, e saw the

warehouse and i ts contents , the ashes of for ty th ousand hum an beings. That ' s

all that rernained of so man y people.

Did you ki o~uohut t11e Gerrtlaizs did w ith the nshes of the people the)"d

fizztrderedi

Every few days or o nce

a

w e ek , a f ew G e r ~ n a ~ lrucks with pr isoners cam e by

and took the ashes to tlic river to wipe out all the evidence. They say rhar

somebody onc e asl<eclwlint they were t lum pi~lg nto th e river, an d the Answer

was fisll food . At first, we tlidn'r kn ow wha t they'd d o w ith th e b o ~ ~ e sn d

they w ere disposecl of in the c re~n a to r ium omp ound .

A

deep pi t was dug

i l l

or e l w s iven to relnov e

he yard and t lic bolics were du n~ pe dhere until d g

all the bones fro~ilhe pit ill order to pulverize thern. t i t that s tage,

we

retnoveci

the bones from

a

c lecp pi t in the compo~und f Cr em ato r iu~ n

[IIT] ant1

w h a t

remained of tliem wa s hauled awa y in a truc k. Tliat 's wh en tltey got th e 1,r.ight

idea o f th rowing cvc~ .~ th ingnto the river and descroyitlg all the eviclence

s

that no on e would see a thing.

Horu iiltlizy pco/)le t~ oi,k edt? tile creririztorirrrii btrild irig 1u11cr.e otr rrloi.keil?

The nicn we re divided up into different jobs. Don ;nsta ~cs, few ycople

removed the bodies from the gas chamber an d others carr ied the hot lies ro t l ~ c

elevator. The bodies were dragged a long way, so different inen took c>v'cr n

the middle. A different grou p wo rked upstairs a t th e fur l iacc level.

Wheiz did you wa ke

up

ill the i?zoi,7irtrgi

At six.

i

I 'm not mistaken, w hen w e worked t lie lmorli lng shif t .

Did yo11 eat sotne tbiizg or d id yo21

g o

straight to irlork?

CVe ate som ething, but we didn't have rnuch tlrne for ~teven r l~ougil e hacl

enough foo d until th c very enel, whe11 he Russians carue. It was fo od th at th e

people who'd been taken to t l le gas c11aml~ers acl br o~ ~ gl i tit61 then .̂ l' h c

foot1 had been left behind in the undressing rooln, and every ~nenlber f the

Sonde rlionlm ando took th ings here an d there. whatever 11e wish ed.ls



role i l l o u r t l ~ o u ~ h t s .h e G erm ans ~ ~ s e dny pret ext, even the mo st trifling, to

esecutc people on the spot, without tr ial , without wasting words, a gunsilot

an d i t was ovcr ant1 done w ith. O u r l ives weren' t w orth a thing.

Did so71re

SS

rwelr stilrrd o ut irl p~ ~r ti cu la ror their sadisni?

All of t l ie n~ ere boru sa dists, but outward ly they looked l ike angels. Once

an SS nian came to clo guard duty . He was a ha nds o~n e uy, and I asked him,

I-iow clid a ma n like you get stuck h ere?" But he turn ed o ut to be the biggest

satlist of he111 ll . Onc e he mu rdered twenry m en upscairs, on the upper floor,

near the fu rnaces, one aft er the other, with a hand gun. After each gunshot the

corpse was throw n straight into the furnace, just l ike in the Mafia. A fterwards

he washed h is hands and sa id ,

"I

just did a little work."

Th e worst satl ists of all were there. &p erso n lost his human ity there. There

you fe l t every mo nlent tha t the m oment f death had arrivcd. You were always

c~bsesscdwith the th ough t that you r t ime was up, tornorrow or t l le day after,

tha t your chances of survival were zero.

Ou r supervisor, h io l l of the SS, was so zea lous a ~ ~ c lrzlzy tha t he personally

took p ar t i ll the c remat ions. O ncc I I was ovet-hcarcl s a y i ~ ~ ghat if Eichmann

ortlered him to crelilate his falllily Iic'd d o it I Ic I-cvcalccl his sadis111at ti~lies

when he c ircula ted among rno t l~e ~. sho wcrc. ;~l)ou ro he gassed and chatted

w ith a I)oy w l ~ o ~ nhey c;lrriecl. 1 lc

cl ic l

i r wit11 I l i t r lc chr~cl<le

n

his lips. He'd

hug the boy, give hi111 o~ li carlcly, ancl try to t ; l lk the 111otIler nto hand ing the

boy to him. The n he'd take t l ie kicl to tlic pit ; l r ~ c l 1 1 1 . o ~li111 into the fire alive.

E7011 said that you spokc ordy C;rec~k i rrt / I.titli~lo. f S O , J O U did you get

ulorlg luirh the G enrrans?

r~nd ers tood fcw words , l ike los I ~ ~ l o v ct Ai.l)cil Iwork ], antreteu

[com e over here ], et cetc ra. It was e11ong11.

I li d y ou kl lo w t l ~ e e ~ r il u n ~ l h o/ J P C L ~l ~ eas in? lli tl yoti I Z I O L U I ~ i s ~ a t i t e ?

No, we watcliecl wh at was happe ning from distance. \Vc

Greeks

a lw;~ys

stootl asidc. In any case, we dicln't u nders tand t lie langl~ agc, o we didn' t get

too close to t l iem. We thought it was safer tha t way.

Did the Gerrrl(11ls etzt y o tr

Th e G crma ns t l idn' t beat us; that wa s the I<apo's job.21 Ele didn' t wan t to

beat us. I don' t wan t t o I~ lam e nyone. Floggings, f loggings. I wa s flogged, too,

but I d o n 't w a n t t o b l a ~n e nyone . I 'ha t ' s how i t was . The Icapo saw a G ernla~ l

a pp ro ac l l j ~ ~g , ~ ~ df h e d i d n ' t fl og us t he G e r n l a ~ ~sould kill him. After all,

w h a t w a s h e a I i a p o

for

I-Ie hat1 to make us work faster. There was no

argument about tha t .

\yr/Jat Imppens to

(1

ntarr

w ho

sees

s

rnarry bodies, tl~orlsairds

f

dead

pea-

ple, 711 toe t i~we?

\Vl~atwas there to d o ab ou t i t? Noth ing. We were there every day. One

month , two mo nths , e ight months

I

s a w it w ~ t h o u tecup. A/iillions of Je ws d ied

that way, like Pha raoh's slaves. \YTe didn't und erstan d the Iangl ~ilge , lidn't

know wh at we'd stumbled into, didn' t k no w a thil lg. We were l ike pieces

of

a

ship that had bro ken up. Pieces of a ship -wh at on earth are they good fo r?

We always, always saw death arouild us. This one or that o n e tvould tiic

c od ay ; y o u r t u r n w o u l d c o ln e t o mo r r o w ~n o r n i n g r a f t e r n o o n . O u r t l ~ o r ~g l l t s

focused on o ne thing only: death. We thoug ht alm ut nothing but t lenth. I leath

and waiting for death became a daily routine. . I l lat ' s I~ o wt wgs chere. \Vlint

did you have t liere, other th an de ath ?

Didii't YOU th ink yott would survive?

We told ourselves that w e werc l iving very close to death , as i f wc werc or1

death row. \Ve didn ' t kn ow when it would h appen; we didn' t kn ow a th in g. XVc

simply couldn' t t l ~i nk bou t the possibil i ty of survival. I t was better not to

think a t al l , not t o think. Sometimes 1 asked myself , "Why don' t people out

there in the wo rld E;rlow what's go ing o n here? "

Notu did you c ope with the situation?

I don' t know.

I

can' t explain i t . T ate, drank coffee, clrank rea, ancl

did

everything else among corpses, thousands ancl thousands of corl7ses. 111 hat

place, where they removed the corpses from the gas ch a~ nb ers , e also atc an d

drank-wi th the corpses . When

I

t h i n k a b o u t it today, really don' t l inow

how a person can l ive under such condi t ions . Ho w? Ho w ? Y don't knoo;.

Ho w? Godies Now aday s, when people l iving ordina ry l ives see a slngle

body, i t shocks them to the core . There we saw tens of thousa~~ds- l i t t le

children , o ld people , young ~ eo pl e , regnant wome n. The lo t A whole nation.

Did you obser ve ntly of the ~e ligiorr s ont7nirtrdiileirts in BirkelriiztZ

No, couldn ' t . I have noching against religion, but

1

was waiting for woii-

ders and n~i rac leshere and tiley never came.

W ha t can you tell rlle irbout su icides nvj o7~ g l~ e o7zcierko7 17rr,111do1.i~-

oilers?

When you don't have guilt feelings, yo11 have n o reaso n to cornmilit suicide.

\Ve w anted to live. Th e men w ant ed t o live even if t h ey h a d n o c h a n c e o f doing

SO.

In other tuords, your conscieizce does n't trouble you.

Correct.

In such

a

crirei wor ld, wa s there izny roo171 for t / ~ er i l / s r r~ u i r ' ~ ?

No , it wasn't wo rth it, but a ma n lives, lives until the day he dies.

Did you ever th ink t l ~a tou could71't cnrry o n? Did you ever zrlnilt t die?

Ycs, it happened.

A

f riend a r ~ d wanted to inhale gas the nioment

t he

d o o r

to death opened. Life wasn' t especially w orth l ivi11g then. I pln ~l~le clt w ~ t l ?

friend who worke d there with me, hut in the end we went ou t, /ay dow n, anti



nlarch was shot without hesitation. But nothing that happened then, in the

your family used to live and tell yourself, "This is where I used to l ive with



t lcath ~i iarcli , ould co mp are to w hat I 'd seer1 at the

crematorium.

\We r ea ch e d M a u t h a u s e ~ ~nd were sent to worli right away.

I

worked a t

G uscn Z"or a fcw m o n th s an d then I w as sen t t o th e M elk c a ~ r ~ p . ~ 'n May

~ ~ 4 5 ,lie Americans liberated us in the forest where we'd heen taken.

Catz yoit describe the dny ofyo~iri b e r u t i o ~ ~ ?

I t was bctween h lay 5 a n d M a y 7 , 1 9 4 5 . We were taken illto a forest and

were I i l~cratedhere . On l i l~crat ion ay , the So nderkom nlando p r isoner Herl ri

Jaho un died nex t to me. 7iv o hou rs before liberatiol?. I-le starved to death;

111cl-ewas noth ing to eat there. Two hours before the liberation , he died.

Th e colcl and the severe co~ ldit ion s ave me edema ill my back. When I felt

that r l iere was son lct l~ i~ igro t ig wi th me, 1 walited them to put me in the

hospital bllt

I

could n't speak the langu age. walke d to the place wher e tlie

i l ~ n e r i c a nro o p s g a th ered , l ay d o w n bcs id e t lt e t c ~ ~ tegi~ larly sed I>y Ameri-

can soldiers, an d said, "kra nk, kran k" ("sick, sick"].

'Tl~ey ound me there, saw

tile

nun i l~el . n my fo rear~ i i , nd pu t me in a

hospital in Linz, wllcre

1

was carcd for t l~ r cco f o i ~r ~ i o l ~ t l i s .hen

my

condi-

tion inlproved, I tllought it best

t

leave because the place w as unplea sant. It

sw arl il ed w i th G e r~ n a ~ l s ;l ~ o new tvhat they were up to All the Greek J e w s

who sul-vived returned to

Snlonik;~.

Hou d id y o u s14rvivo~s

. E f l f l l ?

fo Y O I I ~ ~ o l ~ t e l m t ~ f ?

I

rc tu r~ ie d o Greece v ia Yl~goslav ia .At le as t a t h o u s a ~ ~ dews returned to

Greece a t that rime ten to twc ~ity cws cvcry day, including acquaintances,

friends, and my bro ther, who'cl managcd

to

escape hack in Athens an d joined

thc partisans.*"

We had n o nioney and t h e c o r n n ~ u l ~ i t youldn ' t t lo much to help. They made

sure we go t rcgu lar i~ ieals . hose days , we s t il l ~ l iou gh t

t

was worth waiting

for all the Jcws of Salorlika to com e back. I realized tha t no one there had any

id ca w h a t h ac l h ap l> c~ ~ edn [lie extermination camps. My brother and his

fricncls once invited me l o a re staurant. As we ate, his friends asked me t o tell

them n hou t i\t,scllwitz. I hegall

to

tcll t l len): "N o one will ever come back from

there; they've all bee11 butc1ie1:ed and cre~nated."Before

I

could get three

words o u t of my mouth , my l~ro rhcrnterrupted me a s if to say, "Stop talking

with him; hc's n ot qu ite right in tlie head. Ca n you believe wh at he's saying?

that they crelnated 11uman bei~~gs?"hey wouldn't even believe someone

li~ho'clhecn there, l ikc mc. N o on e could grasp it .

After some time i l l Greece, 1 Jecitled alon g with several other su rvivors that

there wa s 11o othe r so lution for 11s but Eretz Israe l. Ou r families ha d been

dcportccl from Salonika to th e calrlps and were niurdered there. Noth ing re-

maine d. I-fow could we cont inue living there ? Imagine a place where you and

everyone-a family with four ch ild ren , fou r b ro thers and s isters , a tn o t l~ r~ , ,

father." T ha t episode in life was over fo r 11s.

We moved to Palestine in 7 9 4 6 . We reach ed I-laifa on the Iieilrieftn ,\'zo/t/, I

ship that car ried illegal immigran ts. He re wa r against tlie I3ritisl1 awa ited us.

They would n ' t let us get off the ship.

We told them tha t we wanted to live here in Eretz Israel and that we h ad no

other country, but the British forced us to go

t o

Cypru s. I spe nt three tnontlis in

a

British can lp in C yprus w ith o ther Greeks fro111 Salonika. Another cam pwas

f u l l

of Jews wh o'd co me from Rom ania a nd Po la~ ld ia Italy . Cyprus was olle

b ig refugee camp. After three o r four months , they began t o d iv ide us i ~ l io

groups in order t o give us inm igr atio n visas to Eretz Israel. Since there wer en ' t

enough visas for even half tlic people in the cam p, they decided to corldu ct a

draw. 1 w o n th e d raw an d w as o n e of he first w h o irumig rated to l'alestinc in

1946.

lBb~ilt appetzed af ter yo ~ izrr izd?

Wlleri

1

got to I 'alesti~ie, visited one of my uncles in Jerusalem , and w hat

happened i r ~ I-eece epeatcd itself. 1 began to tell the story an cll ~e idn ' t wan t

to hear a word: "Don't talk sr~l~bislilo you think

1

believe you?" Fle didn't

believe me either, an

J

again

I

was considered n~en ta l ly nsound .

He didn't luirnt o I)eliel e you?

He didn ' t wallt t o talk allout i t at all Sucll a thing was inconccivable,

~ ~ ~ co m p re l i en s ib l e .l1c11 spo ke abou t "cremations" an d ' - rn u ~ ~ d er s , "t lvas-

n't considcrcd normal . . 1wondel.ecl if

I

weren 't mistaken after all . These are

[liings that h~urna n 1ei11~san't gra sp. Well, I've been care ful sir~cel ier~ . don ' t

say a word a t hon le o r

t o

fricnds; even those closest to me do n ' t know a thiilg .

Wliy should I tcll the111 if they d o ~? 't an t to believe nie?

At first I did constructiori work. The n, wlicn the War

of

I~ tdcpender tce roke

out,

I

joined the m ilitary and served tw o years in tllc navy.

I

left the military in

late 1 9 5 0 and go t marr ied in 1951 . I have twoch i ld ren -a S O I I a ~ ~ t ldaugh ter :

Both are m arried.

Ho r ~ o yo rt cx p l a i r~ o u r su r~ iu u lo yorrrse f? \Vks i t ltrck? A11 Lrbilit?l o

srrrvil~e?

N o ,

in

fact it's hard to believe that

1

sul.vived.

1

don ' t believe i t to this very

day. When I think ab ou t thc fact t hat 1'111 alive,

I

always tell myself that I'm

living in a cam p- because therc was no way to escape iron1 there.

D o you

t ink n o t i t it

oftctz?

re

you often relt~iiztied f i t ?

There are things tha t can ' t he iorgotter?.

I

lost rr7y whole family -~norlier,

f a ~ h e r ,tvo sisters.

D o y o u

PUPT

drea171

bottt

i t a t n igh t?

5008354 Sonderkommando Auschwitz

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